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Us 25, America 8, Washington 7, Megyn 6, Gallagher 6, Jon Stewart 6, George W. Bush 5, Sandra 5, U.n. 5, Iran 4, Kelly Ayotte 4, Sandra Fluke 4, Lifelock 4, Cairo 4, Israel 3, Agnus T. Jones 3, Sweden 3, Susan Rice 3, Medicare 3, Unitedhealthcare 3,
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  FOX News    America Live    News/Business. Breaking  
   news and interviews. New.  

    November 27, 2012
    10:00 - 11:59am PST  

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jon: i think i saw rick folbaum walk by heading out to the lobby where they sell the powerball tickets. jenna: our tweeters tweeted us and said we need to hold the tickets, maybe rick can't be trusted. jon: good idea. jenna: i trust rick, though. jon: i do too. thanks for joining. megyn: a new twist in the controversy over the administration's handling of the 9/11 certificate o 9/11 terror attack. i'm megyn kelly. we have big news after susan rice meets with top republicans, her chief critics you could argue as to where knee publicly blamed a spontaneous riot for those murders despite the fact that a number of administration officials knew it was like plea a terrolikely a terror attack. the meeting was to answer questions. we are hearing it did not.
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lindsey graham, senator mccain and kelly ayotte said they are more concerned than before she came up to capitol hill to offer her explanation, and her changing story, not just her changing story but that of the administration. we are awaiting press secretary jay karen see and a comment on today's meeting. the conventional wisdom is they sent her up there to smooth over the waters before president obama nominates her. but they did not take miss rice's answers too well. >> i want to say i'm more troubled today knowing, having met with the acting director of the cia and ambassador rice, because it is certainly clear from the beginning that we knew that those with ties to al-qaida were involved in the attack on the embassy, and clearly the impression that was given and the information given to the
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american people was wrong. megyn: senator kelly ae ayotte will join us live next hour. this will be her first public interview since she sat down with miss rice this morning. what exactly did ambassador rice say behind closed doors? why is senator yea a yeah at anayotte and the other two senators so fired up. this was supposed to be the olive branch. it didn't work. we'll find out what happened when she talks to us live. three weeks removed from election today and suddenly americans are being hit by an on shraugt of neon sthraut of new campaigning. a look at the white house now where press jay carney just began today's briefing. he reiterated that president obama will not sign legislation
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that extends lower tax rates for the wealthy in particular. that comes as top republicans in the senate draws a line in the sand saying political ideology cannot rule the negotiations. >> the only balanced approach is one that includes real and lasting reforms. so republicans have stepped out of our comfort zone, we've been clear about what we'll do and what we won't, and yet we remain at an impasse. leading us to why ask why? because a vocal minority on the hard left continues to argue from the leaders of their party from the president on down that democrats in washington should do absolutely nothing about short term, or long term spending problems. this is the thelmand louise crowd, the ones who dream about higher taxes and bigger government it will pay for, regardless of the impact on jobs or the economy, or america's standing in the world.
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these are the ones who have recklessly ignored the fact that we can't keep running trillion dollar deficits every year and throw a tantrum if someone suggests that maybe the taxpayers shouldn't keep subsidizing ever last program washington ever dreamed up. they are reckless and ideological approach threatens our very future. and anyone who is serious about solving the problems we face should ignore all of that starting with the president. megyn: meantime some of the president's supporters unleashed and ad blitz targeting key lawmakers reportedly spending close to $300,000 on an ad buy that talks about increasing taxes but leaving spending alone. here is part of that. >> how do we move our country forward and reduce the deficit, by creating jobs and growing our economy not by cutting programs that families rely on most. megyn: join me now is stu varney, who is host of varney &
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company. and chris stirewalt. you have all the unions unleashing and ad blitz to target the home states of key lawmakers trying to build pressure on them to not agree to any entitlement spending cuts and they are going directly to the american people to sell that message. what do you make of it? >> i make of it that the president has set a clear message in his re-election, which is the campaign never ended, and so it makes sense that his allies in labor and elsewhere on the left side of things are going to keep up that approach. right now republicans are desperate to do a deal, they are trying to put something together to get out of this jam, they know that they lost in the presidency, they still hold the house but they are trying to get out of this. the president is trying to press his advantage and labor unions and others on the left are trying to press the president to go either farther, to go even
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farther out there when it comes to demanding the tax increases and limiting any changes to entitlements or any cuts in spending. megyn: they don't want any, stu and the argument on their part is you don't go after people on medicaid, after seniors who depend on social security and medicare, make some defense cuts if you have to but we'd rather just see the rich get taxed and the near rich get taxed if we have to do that. >> the numbers do not add up, the left is being fundamentally dishonest. they are saying you don't have to cut social security or medicare or medicaid to get the deficit down, all you've got to do is tax the rich some more. they are recklessly suggesting that we go deeper and deeper and deeper into debt heading towards bankruptcy. the numbers, megyn are stunning. we have an unfunded liability for medicare of $42 trillion. an unfunded liability for social security of $20 trillion.
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and a further 20 trillion for unfunded pensions for federal employees, that adds up to $86 trillion which are committed to pay in the future and the money we do not have. therefore, you cannot just tax the rich to get rid of the deficit. you simply can't do that. the numbers don't add up. megyn: chris, what do you make of this, the president is now going to go out on what looks like sort of like a campaign stop on friday to pennsylvania. he already had this meeting with these middle class folks and small business owners. what about the meetings with people like senator mcconnell, with the republicans who he is going to need if he really wants to cut a bipartisan deal? >> it looks very much now like what the president wants to do is break the back of the republicans in the house. we had heard a lot of talk about this was going to be a period of compromise in this lame duck
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because voters had reaffirmed the gridlock reelecting a republican house, democratic senate, democratic president that this would be the time that people would huddle together and get a deal, the president sending a totally different message. what he's saying is i'm going to make you eat it, you're going to have to take this house republicans and that is very specific to his $200,000 and above tax rate increase, he's going to get it and they are going to take it before he'll even begin talking about the rest of the package, all the other stuff that gets done, he's going to try to stick that point and use campaign-style politics to get it done. megyn: stu that ad we watched a clip of talked about you don't cut the safety net, but you have to stimulate growth in the economy, and, you know, that will help revive the economy and reduce the deficit and so on. that is something on which democrats and republicans agree. the question is, how do you do that? >> well the difference here is the left thinks that more government spending, so-called investments in infrastructure
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and e and and ed indication will stimulate the economy and give us growth. it has not worked in the past. republican -ts think you stimulate private enterprise, you create more confidence in the future of the economy, you liberate the money in private enterprise hands, that's how you get growth. there is a fundamental disagreement here about how you get growth. in the past the way we've got even growth in america is to liberate private enterprise, let the private sector get out there and grow, that has given us 4, 5, 6/% growth rates coming out of recessions in the past. this time around we've used more government spending and it hasn't worked. megyn: it's an interesting shift we're seeing. dick durbin said look at the disparity between what a navy seal earns and a hedge fund person earns. it's not fair, moral or right.
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is that the society we live in in which income, equality is required for us to believe we are living morally? >> that is the issue of fairness, isn't it? surely what we want is growth, growth is fair to everybody. growth reduces the deficit, growth reduces the unemployment rate, growth gets people back into houses of their own. without growth you're nothing. enough with this income inequality, the shift to the left, you've really got to liberate private enterprise if you want to have real fairness. megyn: here we thought chris after november 6th we won't be talking about campaign ads, billboard buys or bus advertisements and we were wrong. >> we were wrong too bad. megyn: all right guys, see you soon. we are also watching a tense situation developing today in egypt. what we're told is a volatile of mix of protestors gathered to denounce a recent power grab by their democratic leader. earlier we saw violent clashes
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as president mohammed morsi said the far reaching powers he just granted himself, basically saying he can ignore the courts are just temporary. the thousands gathered in the streets of kaj roar not so sure. they are making their doubts known with a round of protests this afternoon. coming up we will speak with ralph peters about what happened to the promise of democracy in this country and what the rice of a powerful group of islamic hard liners means to america. ralph says the future of egypt is literally on the line today. there was also some breaking news a couple of hours ago in the fast and furious investigation, that's the gun-running sting operation gone bad. and then the probe that led to a multiyear knock down drag out fight between congress and the department of justice, the one wanting the documents and the facts, and the department of justice not wanting to turn it all over. you may remember that attorney general eric holder was sued for more documents on the program
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that wound up funneling thousands of weapons into mexico, two of them found at the crime scene where border agent brian terry, an american was killed. trace gallagher has the very latest live from our west coast newsroom, trace. >> reporter: when the lawsuit was filed back in august the house oversight committee led by republican darrell issa was accusing the president and eric holder of stonewalling their investigation and slowing down the process of finding out exactly how those weapons ended up at the murder scene of brian terry. remember, attorney general refused to turn over the documents, he was in contempt. the president then declared executive privilege overt documents so the lawsuit was really the g.o.p. house members' last chance to get the information they wanted. but then a month and a half later in september the doj's inspector general came out with that scathing report saying that atf agents and federal prosecutors in arizona were quote dysfunctional and poorly supervised and continued to employ risky standards despite danger to the public.
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they recommended disciplinary action against 14doj employees, eric holder was largely vindicated. today in court the judge said allow the documents, the g.o.p. house members were seeking were actually tkpweufpbg out in that ig report. even the house lawyer said yes it's better off now instead of going through the courts we settle this thing kind of play nice and get the information they are seeking. but they are seeking more information, they are going to do it in a different way. megyn: interesting, trace, thanks. for years iran has insisted that its nuclear program is purely peaceful. just aad break brick on the smoking gun that may prove iran is working to develop an atomic weapon. she gained fame about complaining about the cost of birth control. wait until you hear about the honor sandra fluck is in the running for. . just two aleve can keep pain away all day.
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back to the news. is a thrilling, dual-flavored ride to mouth fun-town. but it's not like everyone is going to break into a karaoke jam session. ♪ this will literally probably never happen.
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megyn: fox news alert on the situation in egypt. we have been watching crowds of protestors grow bigger all day in the heart of cairo where
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people are increasingly angry about a move by egypt's president tow grand himself sweeping new powers. he says his decree is only them appraiser raoerbg temporary, allows him to ignore the courts. he says it's in the best interest of his country. the egyptians are not sure. joining me is a strategic analyst. he says i don't have to listen to anybody, i'm the president i have to get this country in order. there you have it. what do you make of today and the protests we're seeing? >> the protests we're seeing, we'll have to wait and see what the estimates are for the crowd size, but they are absolutely critical, because a counter revolution has set in and iffy egyptians want to rescue democracy, and -- have a constitution to treat all citizens equally the forces of liberalism, of secularism of moderation need to win this one. the fate of egypt really is on the line, because if morsi is
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able to weather this demonstration he will be able to push in islam influence, sharia law constitution. when he says the measures are temporary, it doesn't matter because temporary is the problem. right now the new constitution is being drafted, and the centrists, the moderates, the liberals, the coptic christians have all walked out because they see the muslim brotherhood running the whole show. and they are trying to sue through the courts to stop this process, of course morsi doesn't like that, that's why he's saying i am above the constitution. megyn: an islam-driven constitution, sharia law. they already have this president is of the muslim brotherhood which promised it would not run for the presidency. if hosni mubarak was ousted and they had real democracy in egypt that turned out to be completely untrue. now we have morsi there and i
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want to ask you, ralph, the stark contrast between where we are now and where we were back in february of 2011 when president obama, after the arab spring in egypt said this. >> the people of egypt have spoken. their voices have been heard, and egypt will never be the same. for egyptians have made it clear that nothing less than genuine democracy will carry the day. >> you know that is just simply naive. i think the president is well-intentioned but this is a region, the entire greater middle east, with no tradition of democracy, except for israel of course, a transplant. and literally for 5,000 years, perhaps longer there has been nothing but dictatorships, empire tph-s one form os in one
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form or another. the people are struggling to learn democracy. when they become frustrated -- morsi's view of democracy is, hey, i won the election, now i'm king. megyn: what role do you think it had, if any, the praise that we gave to mr. morsi in the wake of his role in brokering a truce between hamas and israel last week >> that was strategic idiotcy. hamas was on the ropes, israel was winning on points. morsi stepped in and basically rescued hamas and got the cease-fire. our president, secretary of state, ambassador rice in the u.n. all gushed praise upon morsi and elevated him to the state us of global statesman. it was a terrible mistake because he hadn't earned that, and the next day he thumbed his
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nose, to put it politely at our government and the west entirely and said, i'm now in charge, i'll do what i want, egypt is going to do what i say, and, by the way, the revolution is over. megyn: does it make it tougher for us to now condemn what he's doing? so far we've had jay carney say we support democracy, we believe the government in egypt should reflect the will of the people, we have concerns about what morsi has done. >> it would be nice if we supported democracy. but i don't think this administration does. let's be honest, george w. bush tried to support democracy in the middle east and in iraq we gave the iraqis their best shot. about five years ago, six years ago i ran into a buzz saw right and left for saying eventually iraq could be governed by a strongman again. today we have mcmc wee-wee we h
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have such a person. megyn: the daughter of anna nicole smith landing a modeling gig with the same agency her mother did. why they worry she may be on her same path. and we find out how governor ronald reagan dealt with the same type of situation. michael reagan is here.
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megyn: that was a beautiful shot of the front of fox news studios right here in negotiate. for children over in sweden this year christmas is all about gender neutrality. girls shooting guns, take a look at the pictures, boys coddling
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dolls. on the pages of sweden's toys r us catalogue. this after the swedish government accused the owners of toys r us there of tere kwroe typinstereotyping. in one catalogue they photo shopped one girl off of the hello kitty's page and changed another's from pink to blue. should toy companies be more gender neutral in their ads. this did not used to be an issue. remember this? issue. remember this? >> stretching fun further than ever before. he stretches, even ties in knots but always returns to his original shape. megyn: it was the best. that was my favorite toy ever that was given to me and, you know, my parents didn't have any issue buying it for me because i was a girl. i see they are using a boy in this commercial, i think. but, you know, really? i think they may be onto something. why do only the boys get to play
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with the guns? why do only the girls get the dollies, you know, i don't know. i think sweden actually might be onto something. you tell me what you think. follow me on twitter@megyn kelly and let me know your thoughts. was m mother used to beg me, dot you want a doll? no i like li like my cowgirl outfit and fake guns. the daughter of anna nicole smith has landed her own modeling gig as the new case of guess, guess kids. is this worry so many in light of the path her mother traveled. trace gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with more. >> again and again her farther has said, no, no, no she is not following in her mother's footsteps. when you look at these pictures 6-year-old danny lin modeling
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the exai same brand of jeaetu that made her mom famous 20 years ago you have many people wondering. she has been raised by her father here in los angeles since her mom died of a drug overdose back in 2007. dad says this is a one-time thing that she will not be a model. he turns around and says, i'm quoting here, i know adana is lolooing at this and seeing how great this will be going onto say his daughter is a natural in front of the camera the creative direior of guest says quoting danilynn has the same playful shirt that her mother has on set but a parental website called diva moms goes onto say, quote, why does she have to follow in her mother's staot steps? yes she is a beautiful little girl but it would be really be best to keep her out of the spotlight until she is an adult. loloo at this. i mean look at the side-by-side she really does look l lie her mom ddivs. her face, by the way, because she is the new face of guest kids will be plastered
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everywhere, magazines, malls, you name it, she was of course the center of that custody battle where they finally turned out that the dna proved that larry burke head was in fact their father. dad says the she is not going to be a model but you'll see the face on the right hand side of that screen a lot for the weeks and months to come. megyn: she is a beautiful girgil it's really sad. it reminds us that this little girl is growing up without her mother who led such a tortured existence for so many years. in any event, trace, thanks. major breaking news today as u.n. ambassador susan rice goes up to capitol hill at her own idea and meets with three lawmakers who could be critical to her possible nomination to secretary of state. how did it go? not so well from the early reports. one of these senators says they are more concerned now than they were before. and just ahead, we will speak with senator kelly ayotte who
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was inside the meeting and we will find out why she is coloserned and see whether she thint f miss rice does deserve o be confirmed if she is in fact nominate secretaryer of state. big developments today over a years' old conspiracy theory that suggests yassar arafaf was murdered with a radiated type of material. sandra fluke as a potential canned tate forfooerson of the year. >> without ietuurance coverage contraception as you know can cost a woman over $3,000 during law schoogirl for a lot of students who l lie me are on subinterest scholarships that is practically an entire summer's salary.
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>> but to the issue of iran, you know, as long as i'm president of the united states, iran will not get a nuclear weapon. i've made that clear when i came into office. megyn: well, president obama may have promised to keep iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but new evidence suggests leaders there have taken a big step toward building one. the associated press obtaining a copy of a simulation of a nuclear bomb blast with three times the force of the one that hit hiroshima. iran maintains it's using its program just for peaceful purposes, but last year the
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u.n.'s watchdog uncovered other diagrams, the yield of potential weapons. well, voting is now underway for time magazine's person of the year, and guess who made the cut? sandra fluke. she's the former georgetown law student who argued that paying for birth control is a financial hardship for female students. >> without insurance coverage contraception, as you know, can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. for a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that's practically an entire summer's salary. i became more aware than ever that this election will decide whether the rights that generations of women have fought for will be rolled back. during this campaign we've heard about two profoundly different futures that could await women in this country and how one of
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those futures looks like an offensive, obsolete relic of our past. megyn: joining me now, leslie marshall who's a fox news contributor and lars larson who is a radio host with compass media networks. so you've got jfk was person of the year with time, you've got gandhi and maybe now sandra fluke. your thoughts on that, lars. >> no! jfk, who said ask not what your country can do for you, and now we've got sandra fluke saying my country can buy me birth control for three years of law school at georgetown, of all places, and you know why she picked that school, to send political messages. i'm sure leslie can't explain how sandra fluke could manage to spend $80 or $900 a month -- 100 a month on birth control. it's absurd. megyn, did they teach that class
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where there's that constitutional provision that guarantees free birth control at taxpayers expense? i must have missed that one. megyn: when i went to law school, the average starting salary was not $260,000 a graduate like it is for graduates out of georgetown law school. now, she's a public interest student, but, you know, she was arguing on behalf of all students there. leslie, is this appropriate? >> i think it's appropriate to have her on the list. do i think -- megyn: why? >> -- she should win? no, no. i think it's appropriate -- >> thank you. >> -- because all the people who have been on the list in the past, i'm looking at some of the names, jay-z, jon stewart, i'm confused what they've done -- megyn: how is jay-z on there? jon stewart's a very funny man, but what is doing on there? [laughter] >> come on, megyn, he impregnated beyonce, but i know a lot of guys -- megyn: i think you mean jay-z
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now, we're off of jon stewart, aren't we? [laughter] >> jay-z, let's not start a new rumor, his wife, beyonce. sandra fluke started a conversation that had really, in a sense, been put back in the closet in america, and that's regarding women's reproductive rights, where tax dollars should and shouldn't go, and she also did this putting herself out there as a target, as we know, for right-wing talk show hosts etc. and that, i feel she did make a contribution to society -- >> oh, come on. >> -- within women's rights. we see how many women voted, she made a contribution, and i think women came together both left and right. do you think she should win? no. i do think -- megyn: many women actually felt that sandra fluke was not representative of what -- >> no! megyn: -- you know, what women value and how they feel about society, and, you know, there
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was a tone in a lot of her remarks that was akin to that of a victim. and, you know, maybe she is a victim. but there was controversy -- >> no, she's not. no. she is a poster child for the santa claus presidency of barack obama, the food stamp presidency of barack obama, the everything you want the government will give to you. and by the way, megyn, i'm sure in albany law school they covered the second amendment based on the right to bear arms, i think the government should have a program to buy us all pistol and rifles based on the sandra fluke logic. women have rights to control their bodies, fine. the government has the right to prohibit at some point when we get rid of v. wade the extermination of baby children, including girls because of gender selection abortion and the like. and the idea that some elite person like sandra fluke going to an expensive elite law school like georgetown who, as megyn pointed out, can go out and make
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a quarter million dollars walking out the door, the fact that she plans to throw it away by saying i'm going to go out and do public interest law, that's her choice. but her choice should also be if you want birth control, head on down to walmart, kmart or tand a month. megyn: the public commitment means you're not going to be taking on that kind of dough -- >> her choice. megyn: leslie, you know, also on the list and apparently among the leaders right now for person of the year is little mulala over in pakistan, she was 11 when she first started journaling about her desire to be educated, and then she got shot in the head twice when she was 14 by the taliban that would not have it. now, you tell me. does time cheapen its award by having -- with all due respect to ms. fluke and what she stands for, but by even handing jay-z
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and sandra fluke and jon stewart on the same list as that little girl? >> well, i honestly think that sandra fluke is in a very different category than certainly jay-z and jon stewart, and i would agree with you, people like jay-z and jon stewart should not be in that list. we have to remember in the past adolf hitler has been time's man of the year. this little girl has my vote, and she has my vote because she not only exhibited bravery, she definitely started a conversation not only in her conversation, but throughout the world, but reminded the world of the violence and oppression in speaking out against peace especially if you are a female. and she did it anyway. and she definitely has my vote, absolutely. i don't have that kind of bravery. megyn: i'm with you. >> she's amazing. megyn: i'm with you. and time has a real opportunity here to bring more attention to little mulala's story and what she has fought for, the courage that so many international leaders fail to exhibit, she did. guys, thank you both so much.
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>> thank you, megyn. >> you bet. megyn: by the way, my interview with former first lady laura bush is still on our web site, foxnews.com/"america live," and she is made this a call to arms of her own, trying to bring attention to what girls and women are suffer anything that part of the world when it comes to just trying to educate themselves. check it out. well, as lawmakers try to reach a come propoise on the so-called fiscal cliff, what could be a big increase in the dividend tax. this' next. >> our taxes are about to go up. >> not the taxes on our dividends though, right? that's a big part of our retirement. >> the rate on our dividends would more than double. or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.
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we worked hard to save. megyn: that commercial is being aired right now on fox news among other stations, and it highlights one of the big tax hikes headed your way if lawmakers don't reach a deal on the so-called fiscal cliff. the current tax rate people pay on their dividend income from their investments is 15%, but on january 1st the top rate could shoot up over 39%. what would the implications of that be? joining me now, nick akin of the defend my dividend campaign. he's and ceo of american electric power. >> good afternoon, megyn. megyn: it's great to have you. you're the man behind that ad, you paid for it, you like it -- >> i do like it. megyn: for people like me who don't have a lot of investments, who has dividend income, and how is it used? >> dividend income comes from investment in our types of businesses. utility investments are clearly one of those areas where we deploy a lot of capital, and investors invest in our company based upon the constant yield of
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the dividend, and that's extremely important particularly for older americans, and certainly it's an issue for us as we go forward to show that consistency. it's clearly an issue where our shareholders, 40% of our shareholders are individual investors, and they are focused on that dividend yield -- megyn: but are they rich people? because the voters don't seem to care about rich people. are they rich people who are getting their dividend income? >> that's one of the things that's really unclear. when you have investors like that, many people think they're really rich investors, but they're not. matter of fact, 70% of the investors, actually people who file tax returns with qualified dividends, 70% had adjusted gross income of less than 100,000. 40% had adjusted gross income of less than 50,000. and 63% of those were americans 50 years of age and older. so it's not just a matter of the rich, it's a matter of all of us
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involved through mutual funds, through direct dividends from the companies. all those things would be affected as a result. megyn: so now this tax that people have to pay on dividend income is currently at 15%, and that's courtesy of the george w. bush years. but that is going to go up on january 1st if they don't reach a deal on these automatic tax hikes we're going to face. now, ma would like it -- president obama would like it to go up, but he only wants it to go up to 20% tax, and that's what the democrats want -- no, let me revise that. senate democrats want to raise it to 20%, president obama wants it to be taxed as ordinary income. and that's how you get to, you know, it could be up to 39% or more tax, depends on where you are on the income scale, correct? >> that's correct. matter of fact, 15% today -- and, by the way, both dividend and capital gains are at 15%. so if you have the change through the fiscal cliff and we go to ordinary income for
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dividends at upwards to 43.4%, then investors are going to look at our types of investments and make a decision whether they want to continue to invest, to pay the higher taxes associated with it, or actually pay in companies that produce capital gains. so you have to keep parity of those two, but also you want to keep the rates low to encourage investment in our companies but also investment in jobs and job creation that goes along with it. megyn: so companies like yours and the investors who put money in them and get this dividend income, you're not necessarily going to be saved if the white house and lawmakers reach a deal to avoid going off the so-called fiscal cliff because if president obama gets his way, those tax hikes are going to happen even with respect to dividend income. and if the senate democrats get their way, you're still going to get a 5% tax on that income. republicans arguing to keep it the same at 15%? >> well, there is discussions about an increase in the dividend tax, but the issue is
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it needs to have parity, and it needs to be nominal enough to where it doesn't have an impact on investors. and certainly investors are looking at it and saying, well, if i spend a dollar on a dividend, if i get a dollar dividend return and right now i get 85 cents on that dollar after taxes, i don't want to go, you know, to 64, 65 cents. that's something dramatically different. and i think that's the issue that needs to be dealt with in the overall context. keep in mind, too, that our business and utility industry, these to spend $-- we need to spend $2 trillion just to invest in our system, refurbish the grid and keep the lights on. so it's imperative for us to have investors in our business, otherwise there'll be issues associated with that as well. megyn: yeah. then you have got to hire people so on and so forth, and it's tough to do. nick, thank you for being here and your thoughts on it. >> thank you, megyn. megyn: new questions about the
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longtime leader of the palestinian liberation organization. did someone murder him with radioactive material? big developments today on that conspiracy theory. and turning on his own show despite earning a whopping $350,000 per episode, why the 19-year-old star of two and alev half men is now saying, don't watch it.tic >> you can't leave the table tin you finish your vegetables. in v8 v-fusion. vegetable nutrition they need, fruit taste they love. could've had a v8. or...try kids boxes!
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megyn: well, former palestinian leader yasser arafat died back in 2004, but now there are new questions about what killed him. his body is being exhumed today so investigators can determine if he was killed using a rare, hard-to-trace radioactive poison. david lee miller live in jerusalem with more. >> reporter: megyn, loan yum. chances are you've never heard of it, but some investors
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believe it may have been used to poison yasser arafat. a quantity as small as a grain of salt can be deadly. workers at the tomb to block prying eyes and cameras put up a large blue tarp today. privacy was so great that the cell phones were taken away from workers in order to prevent any unauthorized pictures. arafat's wife called for this exhughes after the documentary. arafat became seriously ill back in november of 2004. she was flown to france for treatment, and he died two weeks later. the cause of death was officially listed as a stroke. now scientists from russia, switzerland and france will try to determine if loan yum poisoning was the cause. to loan yum emits deadly radiation that destroys human tissue, and though it cannot
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penetrate the stint if it's ingested, it does affect the organs. that is something israel denies. now, as for these tests, at the end of the day they might prove inconclusive. the poison decays very quickly, less than three years. arafat has been buried now for eight years. it is very possible, according to some investigators, that these results might tell us nothing at all. megyn? megyn: wow. david lee, thanks. well, a homeowner shoots a pair of teenagers as they are breaking into his house, but now the prosecutors say he shot them, quote, in a manner that goes way beyond self-defense. trace gallagher walks us exactly through what happened. kelly's court debates, and you will decide who was in the right and who was in the wrong. and president ronald reagan took office saying we needed to downsize government and dramatically cut federal spending, but in order or to make it happen, he had to agree
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to a deal that involved a big tax increase first. today his son michael explains how his dad says he got the taxes but never the spending cuts in a lesson that he says republicans in washington should be watching very closely.
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call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. megyn: fox news alert, big news out of washington today where u.n. ambassador susan rice met with three top republicans whose votes could be critical if she is nominated to secretary of state. senators john mccain, lindsey graham and kelly ayotte saying they are now even more troubled than they were before about ms. rice's initial explanation when it comes to the deadly attack on our consulate this in the libya on 9/11 of this year. welcome, everyone, i'm megyn kelly. ambassador rice making the rounds on capitol hill this afternoon hoping to mend some fences and possibly gain support for her possible nomination as the nation's top diplomat.
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but so far that meeting seems to have left more questions than answers. listen here. >> the information that she gave the american people was incorrect when she said that it was a spontaneous demonstration triggered by a hateful video. it was not, and there was compelling evidence at the time that that was certainly not the case. >> bottom line, i'm more disturbed now than i was before, that the 16, september explanation about how four americans died in benghazi, libya, by ambassador rice, i think, does not do justice to the reality at the time, and in hindsight clearly was completely wrong. but here's the key, in realtime it was a statement disconnected from reality. >> i'm more troubled today knowing, having met with the acting director of the cia and ambassador rice because it
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certainly was clear from the beginning that we knew that those with ties to al-qaeda were involved in the attack on the embassy, and clearly the impression that was given, the information given to the american people was wrong. in fact, ambassador rice said today, absolutely, it was wrong. megyn: joining us now, kelly ayotte, a republican senator from new hampshire who was part of those meetings today and whose sound bite you just heard. senator, welcome back to the program. >> thank you, megyn. megyn: all right, explain that for us, if you would. why are you more troubled today than you were before you met with ambassador rice? >> well, first of all, i appreciated that we had the meeting today, but i will say that up front the acting director of the cia and ambassador rice said that the story about the video and the protests was wrong. in fact, the acting director of the cia said by the 22nd of september they had absolutely confirmed that that was wrong,
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and so i think the first issue is having gone on every major news network and represented that story that she now admits is wrong, why doesn't she come forward -- why didn't she come forward sooner to say that, first of all? in addition to that, what also troubled me was that we have heard that she relied on the unclassified talking points in terms of what she said on each of the sunday shows. but what was important to understand is that in her capacity as the u.n. ambassador, she also reviewed the daily intelligence briefings. we know from already-reported information that the classified talking points said clearly that al-qaeda, individuals associated with al-qaeda or with ties to al-qaeda were involved in the attacks. that was then omitted from the unclassified talking points, but
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she had reviewed the classifieses talking points -- classified talking points. and nevertheless, when you look at what she said on cbs "face the nation," also on "meet the press," not only was that piece omitted, but also she said that al-qaeda was decimated in both of those interviews. so that, of course, was a misleading impression to the american people about what happened at the consulate. obviously, the american people would have taken a very different impression had the information about individuals with ties to al-qaeda been involved in the attack been presented from the beginning. megyn: what was her explanation for that? >> i was unsatisfied with the explanation. basically, as i understand it, the explanation is that that was being withheld, the al-qaeda involvement was being -- that point of the talking points was being withheld for classified reasons. but i also explored didn't you
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question that, because that left -- if you omit that portion of the talking points, it leaves a very different impression to the american people. and, frankly, i didn't get a satisfactory answer to that or an explanation that i felt really warranted. and think about, you know, obviously, she has a very important position in the united nations. she made it very cheer that she was not just parroting the talking points, that she had obviously done her own homework, and part of her responsibilities is to receive the daily intelligence briefings that includes the classified information. megyn: right. so she knew more than she was el telling us. i see your point. it's not that she just withheld the information about al-qaeda, she made statements that seemed to say al-qaeda had been decimated. of course, in the written statement she provided today to the public, which i want to tell our viewers we have, and in her meetings with you as well came out and did say the talking
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points provided by the intelligence community were incorrect in a key mr. mr. prest respect. there was no -- in a key respect. she's admitting now that what she said -- in right. megyn: she's blaming it on the intelligence committee. who told her to go on the sunday talk shows, and who specifically gave her this information? >> well, she was asked -- which i think has already been talked about earlier -- she was asked to go on the sunday talk shows by the white house. and the talking points were given to her by the intelligence community. let me just be clear, the information that was given by the intelligence community about the protests of the video, that was wrong, and we have to get to the bottom of why the intelligence community got that so wrong. because, frankly, the evidence from the beginning appears to be a key component being that individuals with ties to al-qaeda were involved in the
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attack. what was omitted, obviously, from the unclassified talking points but was, you know, already been reported as been in the classified. so i think that wherer with this -- where we are with this is there is an intelligence failure -- megyn: let me just stop you on that point. we already know james clapper, the director of national intelligence, his office after the fact, after the lawmakers on capitol hill pressed and pressed and pressed, he went up to capitol hill according to the senators who received the briefing and the congressmen and said i don't know who changed the talking points to take out al-qaeda. that's what peter king told us when he came on our show among other, and mike rogers attested to that. and then a couple days later his office came out and said, it was us. we were the ones who changed the talking points to take out al-qaeda. and then mike romers said -- mike rogers, mr. clapper, can you explain why you just told us it wasn't you and you had no idea who did it? so that's why i asked if she
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gave you a name of who briefed her. >> no. we have not been getting a name, but i would say, megyn, that i still think that there needs to be more sufficient answers as to what agency changed the talking points and who did that, and those are some of the questions we have answers -- we expect answers to. and also why they did that. it's absurd to me to think that you would omit the reference of al-qaeda. so we didn't want to tip al-qaeda off? and particularly since it's very important that the american people not be left a misleading impression which is what happened here. and not only did it happen, if the intelligence community knee why buy the 22nd this was wrong, how come we weren't told sooner and why didn't ambassador rice say what she said was wrong sooner?
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megyn: some suggesting the attacks on ms. rice are based on her gender and her race, and that's what's really driving your objections to her among others, and they don't focus so much on you, a woman, but they focus on the gender of senator mccain and the race of those who are taking issue with ms. rice. like to get your thoughts -- >> i notice that i got missed out of that. but i think that it's absolutely false. this is very important, that if someone is going to, number one, serve now in an incredibly important position as ambassador to the united nations or be nominated to be the top diplomat in service to our country as a secretary of state that we get answers to this question. i mean, the fact that she would go on each of these shows, what does she rely on, what does she do for her homework, and why doesn't she ask questions about why is this key piece of information being admitted and really question that rather than leaving a misleading impression
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to the american people, particularly with her statement that al-qaeda was decimated? i think these are incredibly important questions about anyone that would serve in that position, and those claims are completely baseless. megyn: yeah. need a quick answer. do you believe now she is confirmable as secretary of state? >> i think that there are still incredibly serious questions that need to be answered about the entire circumstances surrounding benghazi. let's not forget, megyn, before the attacks on the consulate, why it wasn't reinforced in addition -- megyn: that's not susan rice. >> i agree. but i think we should get to the bottom of it. we're going to confirm a new secretary of state, we should know everything about what happened and what went wrong there. because whoever's asked to serve in that position is going to have to make sure that in that capacity it doesn't happen again. but with respect to susan rice, i think there are still several important questions including about the talking points, including about the questions that i've raised about why she didn't come out and correct this
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sooner and why would you leave a misleading impression, you know, if the information you had reviewed was different. and why wouldn't you question? why are the unclassified talking points different? and, of course, her statement that al-qaeda was decimated. these are incredibly important questions that i think anyone would ask with regard to before they would consider -- [inaudible] >> senator, thanks so much. >> president obama's taking his case to the public to build support for his strategy when it comes to solving this financial crisis. we'll take a look at that. plus, the growing controversy on the set of the hit tv series two and a half men. why its youngest starr is urging viewers to stop watching his show. and three decades ago president ronald reagan reached across the aisle to broker a crucial tax reform bill to help jump-start the economy. with the fiscal crisis looming now, what can president obama learn from his predecessor?
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michael reagan joins us right after this break. >> in a few days, the congress will stand at the fork of two roads. one road is all too familiar to us. it leads ultimately to higher taxes. we are the house when it comes to the big game. yeah. it's his thing. i don't even participate. boom! here it comes! bring it back! bring it home! [ male announcer ] when you combine creamy velveeta with zesty rotel tomatoes and green chilies, you get a bowl of queso that makes even this get-together better.
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>> in a few days, the congress will stand at the fork of two roads. one road is all too familiar to us. it leads, ultimately, to higher taxes. it merely brings us full circle back to the source of our economic problems. where the government decides that it knows better than you what should be done with your earnings and, in fact, how you should conduct your life. the other road promises to renew the american spirit. it's a road of hope and opportunity. it places the direction of your life back in your hands where it belongs. megyn: that was president reagan in 1981, days before a crucial tax reform bill went up for
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debate in congress. president reagan felt songly that we needed to downsize goth and dramatically cut federal spending. in order to make that happen, he agreed to a deal with democrats that first involved a big tax hike. the taxes went up, but mr. reagan never saw his spending cuts. and now michael reagan is warning that there's a lesson here that is especially important. he's a political consultant and chairman of the reagan group. michael, let me -- you've talked about this before. you said it was your dad's greatest regret that he never, that he agreed to that deal and never got the promised spending cuts? >> yeah. he didn't get the spending cuts. sold to him by bob dole at the time that can the democrats were going to come onboard, give him $3 in spending cuts for every dollar in taxes, and guess what? megyn: how did that happen? >> he regretted the fact that he signed on to that. but it wasn't too many years later, megyn, that george h.w.
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bush was offered two for one. he wanted to cut the deficit by $500 billion. the republicans went to him with clash 490 billion -- $490 billion in spending cuts. the democrats said we can match your 500 billion, but you have to raise taxes. and george h.w. bush raised taxes, the two came in, never got the spending cuts at all, and they hung that around his neck in 1992, and it cost him the election. megyn: how did it happen that your dad agreed to the tax hikes but didn't get the spending cuts? >> yeah. well, how that works out is the fact that the tax hikes went into place first, and the spending cuts just never showed up. at all. remember, the united states early on controlled by republicans and bob dole, the house of representatives by the democrats. democrats had to put those things toward, so they made the promise, and they didn't follow
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through with the promise as with h.w. bush in 1990. so as i warned the other day in a tweet, if republicans do not getting the spending cuts before the revenue, they may end up on the ash heap of history. megyn: there was an interesting article by marc thiessen, former george w. bush speech writer, and he comes on this program a lot arguing that if the republicans are getting ready to offer these -- they don't want higher tax rates, but they are willing to see some tax deductions and loopholes and other things closed that would effectively raise taxes on the rich. he argues if they give that away now just to get us past january 1st without getting the spending cuts that they're demanding in return, then they have, what's the -- how does it go, bought the farm? they've given up the farm, because he says they'll never be, they can never renegotiate. if they don't get those spending cuts up front, like you're arguing, they can kiss 'em good-bye forever. >> oh, absolutely right. they can kiss them absolutely
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good-bye forever. and i think most of the people that i rub into in this country, i'm sure you too, also, megyn, are really tired of the continuing resolutions, continuing of going year to year to year. let's get a budget in place, let's pass the budget and get the economy rolling again going forward instead of debating this issue and arguing this issue every six months, every known months as we come into -- every nine months as we come into an election year. harry reid still hasn't passed a budget now in four years in washington d.c. he'd rather play games with the republican budgets than pass a budget of his own. it's time the democrats came to the table. and the republicans need somebody to stand up. may i suggest george h.w. bush stand up and tell the people what really happened to him in 1990, 1992, and that george w. bush stand up and really stop taking the blame for what happened in the economy and put it where it belongs. we need the two former presidents to stand up just like the three presidents today that are democrats are bashing the
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bush administration, bashing their economy. they need to not wait for history to tell the story, they need to tell the story themselves. megyn: but george w. bush, who lowered taxes, did spend a lot. he was a spender, and gave us the medicare, you know, prescription drug program that we didn't really have the funding for, and that added to our deficit and to our debt, and then president obama came in and, you know, passed health care and passed the stimulus plan and said we needed all those things allegedly to fix the economy, and now we are sitting here with $16 trillion worth of debt, michael, and they turn to us and they say, sorry, but you have to pay. you have to pay to get us out of it. >> yeah. and what they want to say is only those people who are rich, making $250,000 a year, are going to pay the price which as everybody knows by now is going to run our government for eight and a half days -- megyn: literally. >> every single year. spending has to be cut. nothing's changed since the history of mankind.
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spending needs to be cut in washington, d.c., and we need to start thinking of all the people instead of the specialized little groups within the united states of america. we're not the united groups of america, we're the united states of america. get the job done. megyn: i want to ask you, because you've talked about your dad's ability to compromise and how he went to tip o'neill, a democrat, and they reached agreement. now we have president obama sort of engaging in a campaign where he's going out on the trail to sort of speak directly to the people to try to convince them to get behind his version of saving us from the fiscal cliff. do you think he's talking to the wrong people? >> no, he's talking to his people that elected him, you know, back on november 6th. that's the people and the group that he is, in fact, talking to. the republicans also need somebody out there actually speaking to the people to really get to them and tell them the history of when you start trading three for one or two to one. and the only way you're going to get the dominant media, what have you, is to have former presidents stand up and say
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something, and basically say i'm mad as hell, and i'm not going to take it anymore. they will, in fact, garner the television cameras for the mainstream media. right now it's fox and talk radio -- megyn: that would get attention. >> you found out on november 6th. megyn: thank you, sir. coming up, an unbelievable kelly's court.
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megyn: fox news alert, we are watching a developing story right now in egypt where tensions are escalating today. you are looking atta rear square in cairo moments ago. thousands of angry protesters have been gathering throughout the day, and the crowds continue to grow. there have already been some violet exchanges with the police. the demonstrators are challenging president morsi's decree placing himself above the law, saying he doesn't have to listen to what the courts say. he says it's only a temporary
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measure. steve harrigan streaming live from cairo now. steve? >> reporter: megyn, this is the largest demonstration of anti-morsi protesters we've seen since the egyptian president made that decree on thursday. you can hear the sires and small explosions behind me. police are trying to push out younger protesters who are throwing rocks and lighting objects on fire in the streets around tahrir square. it's been the largest demonstration as people continue to stream in, and it's really been a mix of people, people from different political parties really united by the president's move, united in opposition, angry at what they say is an attempt at dictatorship by president morsi. one protester has died from tear gas so far today, and the muslim brotherhood, supporters of president morsi, have canceled a planned march of their own. they're trying to reduce chance of violence in this bitterly-divided nation. as far as a chance of compromise goes, the president made an
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effort at that yesterday. he met with several chief judges here in cairo, but earthly that compromise falling on deaf ears. protesters out in this even greater force. they say they will not leave the streets until president morsi has completely revoked the decree giving him widespread powers. megyn, back to you. megyn: steve harrigan, thank you. and remember what ralph peters told us, watch the size and strength of these protests. if they're weak, if they don't appear to have the vigor that we saw perhaps prior to the arab spring, he said president morsi may wind up feeling emboldened and not give a second thought to his edict. if we see a strength of protest, if we see protesters as steve is reporting that refuse to to back down, perhaps he will rethink his power grab. and ralph saying that the future of egypt could literally depend on what happens in these protests now. well, a 64-year-old man charged with second-degree murder after he shot two intruders who were breaking into
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his house. did prosecutors make the right call? kelly's court debates, you decide. plus, republicans are today accusing the president of staging photo ops and using old talking points instead of sitting down to actually negotiate a critical package of spending cuts and tax hikes. up next, a debate on leadership and what needs to happen in washington as the nation races toward a sweeping series of budget changes that will affect us all. >> we'll continue to wait on the president and hope that he has what it takes to bring people together and forge a come promielz. if he does, we'll get there, and if he doesn't, we won't. it's that simple. anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'.
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or go online and let lifelock protect your identity for 60 days risk-free. because during the holidays, keeping your identity protected means keeping your family protected. megyn: at a time like this, we have to start asking fundamental questions. leadership. what does it mean? is it leadership to do this whole razzle-dazzle act and bring the ceos in, and then we are going to have community organizers and we are going to claim that the american people are with us. that is not leadership. leadership is when you have the time to deliberately go through the issues in a serious and mature manner. you do so. even if an election is on the line, even if it's not behind closed doors. once again come at the end of
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the day, the american people are going to get the short end of this deck. because they won't see what the negotiations really were. megyn: that is radio star laura ingram, raising questions about president obama leadership when it comes to the tax hikes and spending cuts that will take effect at the end of this year unless washington do something. her remarks echo mitch mcconnell, who took an even tougher time today. criticizing the president for staging a series of campaign style events instead of what he says would be leadership. joining me now to discuss that is the dog show. a former pollster for president clinton and cohost of campaign insiders here on the fox news channel. he is also a fox news contributor. so this is how real america is
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going to be affected if this takes place. she seems to be suggesting, that he is not talking to the right people. he needs to be dealmaking and leading and inspiring the folks on capitol hill to follow. doug? >> i absolutely agree, megyn. the president has won the election. but the bottom line is that he got 51% of the vote. it is hardly an overarching mandate. 40% voted against him and he has to bring the country together. the way you do that is by compromising. the republicans have put revenue on the table. i think that the president can put entitlements on the table. megyn: he says that he will. >> he says he will, but we have to get specificity and decision, because we are facing, as everyone knows, a hard deadline of january 1 when the fiscal but with all due respect, what is leadership? how could he need and actually
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get that deal done? >> the way the lead that you leave when you are president, and maybe you should call bill clinton, instead of having him testify to his greatness, maybe you should have him explain how you call people in and how you do deals. that is what lyndon johnson did, that is what george h. w. bush did. that is how you get it done. one thing he knows how to do his campaign. if you read bob woodward's book, he was totally absent in the disaster of august 2011. i'm sorry, 2011, yes. look, this is his opportunity. republicans have put that on and i don't think they need to go further in putting revenue on the table. but they need to make the president lead. they have to tell the president. when we see these labor advertisements and what the president is doing, they think the campaign is still on. it is not. the person who has suffered the most, it was president obama on
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the issue of leadership. that is what is required. you you get in, you deal when you compromise. you say it's my way or the highway. megyn: it does feel like it's a campaign in many ways. pat mentioned the unions at a time to buy these advertisements, the so-called safety net, that is how they refer to social security, medicaid, medicare, education costs, they don't want any cuts. they want all tax hikes. and then you have jim messina coming out and saying that we have only one way to do it together. and then there are youtube videos are trying to convince folks that we need higher taxes. this is one from a guy named ron. >> and i think that it begins
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with this. everybody needs to put in their fair share. if your privilege, it seems that you have benefited from this country. and you a little bit more and you need to pay a little bit more back. >> i think that leadership in this case means putting everything on the table as the simpson-bowles framework dead. basically every issue needs to be be taken care of. if we get into sequester and we have spending and defense, we will hurt our country and drive us into recession. both sides have said enough to suggest to me that a deal can be done. the president has to go behind closed doors with nancy pelosi
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and susan rice and all those people to make it right. megyn: he was known for reaching across the aisle. he was a people person. he was a feel your pain kind of guy. you mentioned that bob woodward, the reporting about president obama is that he is not exactly a people person. he is more introverted and he doesn't enjoy that kind of attention. >> this is a man who has not even talk to max baucus, the senator finance committee or tom harkin, the head of the democratic services committee. he has yet to speak to them the least as of two weeks ago. this is a man who needs to do his job. we need less of the tr stuff and we need the press to hold him responsible. the leaders of the committee and actually we need to hash this out. the republicans, i think politically, the position ought to be quite straightforward.
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nothing that is a giveaway to hedge fund managers. they ought to say that taxes on millionaires, people making a million dollars, you come up with real cuts. so far, the president has no intention. he says he has, but he doesn't. no cuts whatsoever. this country is about over the fiscal cliff and someone has to lead it. the person they get elected leaders the president. i'm sorry, you either lead or you fail. >> there hasn't been a ton of willingness to compromise with president obama. that is in part because they believe that they have a mandate to hold firm. they promise that they are not going to raise tax rates and then they are going to keep that promise. so how much could leadership on the president's part change those hearts and minds? >> i think very easily.
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the bottom line, the president said, rather than the full 3%,, we will cappadocians and we will meet you halfway and we will start on entitlement reform. it is easy to do. the framework is there. but what is missing is leadership and the willingness to compromise. something that both guides, president and the republican leaders have to do with. megyn: i wonder if ron gets any kind of payment for this. the spokesperson for the cause. you know, if this works, whether he gets any kind of kickback. thank you guys so much you think you. >> thank you. megyn: coming up next, a homeowner is charged with murder after shooting two burglars on thanksgiving day. what prosecutors say he went beyond self-defense and should be locked up for second-degree murder. that's coming up next.
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so i never missed a beat. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. megyn: a shocking story out of minnesota were a homeowner is charged with two counts of second-degree murder. after shooting two teenagers, he says that they were breaking into his house on thanksgiving day. he admitted to shooting more shots than necessary after one of the burglars laughed at him. trace gallagher has more. reporter: it is very hard to read. byron smith telling police that his house had been burglarized a times before. on thanksgiving day, he was down in his basement and huberty window break and footsteps come down. as soon as nick chappel came into view, he opened fire. they tumbled down the steps and he shot him again in the face, telling police that he wants them dead.
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when his 18-year-old cousin came down the stairs, he shot her as well. when she fell down the stairs, he walked up to shoot her again, but the gun was jammed. he said that she laughed a mental police that if you are trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again. he then grabbed a different gun. listen to the sheriff. >> mr. smith told us that he placed his pistol under the victim's chen and fired a final shot. the law does not permit you to execute somebody once the threat is gone. there is no way that this can continue. >> but minnesota does have a doctrine which allows homeowners to use deadly force to protect their homes. some say he was doing just that. >> there is no good way to do it when something like that happens. i mean, is there a law on how to
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kill somebody? >> if you walk over and pop another round, that in my mind, that is just a viable force even in the home. reporter: he never notified authorities because he panicked. he told him what happened. the neighbor called police. he is being charged with second-degree murder and held on $2 million bond. megyn: thank you so much. trace gallagher. second-degree murder, isn't the right call? joining me now is a former prosecutor, joe jackson and brian claypool, who is also a defense attorney. you tell me. they were down. he shot them. they were down and then he finished them off. how is that self-defense at that point? >> here is the problem.
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the law in minnesota as it states right now, says that if you are a homeowner and somebody breaks into your property without consent and they are going to commit a felony, you can kill that person. this law does not distinguish between whether there was a reasonable or immediate threat to the person who owns the property. there is no language in the statute that says that. so i would argue for byron smith. it is obviously a tragedy. but i would argue that the way the law as stated, he has absolute immunity to being prosecuted for second-degree murder and i would request an immunity hearing to have the charges dropped. megyn: so if that's true, as soon as they step foot in the house, they are dead. they can step foot in the house and no matter what happens, you can continue to shoot until you are sure that they are dead? >> absolutely not. one thing is clear, that is that any statute, whether it is
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written or not, has to be interpreted with common sense. the fact is this. self-defense is about one thing, self-preservation. once you have reserved your life and others around you, that is part of it. it is not about making public pronouncements and not about execution. it is defending against the threats. even though the minnesota statute allows you to defend your home, it does not allow you once the threat is otherwise resolved to shoot someone in the face because you feel like it. and then because they represent no other danger, you should do multiple times, and guess what? according to him, you get a clean shot through the neck so that you make sure that they are dead. this is, without question, second-degree murder. it will be prosecuted as such, and i do believe that the prosecution will secure a conviction. >> is it easy to say that the threat was over, you know, sitting here in the studios.
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he says his house had been broken into. one after the other coming down the stairs. by himself. you know, is it possible that even though he shot him, he did not leave the threat was over? >> megan, i don't think that's possible. but i disagree with joe. >> he has to answer to. >> he is a charmer. [talking over each other] [talking over each other] >> the legislator has to change a lot here. sometimes tragedies happen in our country to prompt change. the way that statute reads, it is not speaking to the immediate threat of death. it simply says you can kill somebody if they enter your property. if that's the case, it doesn't suit you can shoot once or twice
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or three times or four times. megyn: this is the charms factor. he said about the girl, the 17-year-old girl, she laughed, but it wasn't a very long life because she was already hurting. that is when he shot her in the chest several times more, and while she was still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin and described it as a good, clean finishing shot. he is a charmer all right. >> the point is you want to talk about statutes, let's talk about the constitution. do we change the constitution because something is not said? is a really neat is that you can't shoot somebody eight or nine or 10 times and it will not be deemed self-defense? megyn: but it says deadly force. >> i will concede that. but once the threat has otherwise been terminated and they represent no other threat and they are tumbling down the stairs looking at you -- they
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can't defend themselves. do you shoot them in the face? is that appropriate? if someone else comes down and they are otherwise again, you shoot them again -- that is not what you call lawful. it is called unlawful. megyn: that's a great debate. thank you guys so much. coming up next, the kid from two and a half men doesn't think that you should watch the show. 1
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megyn: a growing controversy on the hit tv series "two and a half men", after its younger star, agnus t. jones, denounced the show and urged viewers to stop watching it because of what he said is the show's anti-christian message. trace gallagher has more knowledge. reporter: agnus t. jones was a child when the show darted and
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now he is 19 years old and it's a very devout christian. a couple of years ago when his parents got divorced, he had a dangerous desire to run away from it all and go into drugs. but he said that god protected him from drinking and it goes onto on to say that he is still a virgin. now he tells a christian church in alabama that he wants you to stop watching the show because it is felt. listen to him. >> he is a nonexistent character. "two and a half men", if you watch that show, "two and a half men", please stop watching it. i am on the show and i don't want to be on it. please stop watching it. not filling your head with "filth." please. reporter: he goes on to say that people should research the effects of tv on your brain. it's bad news. he failed to mention that tv has made him rich.
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he has a contract for another year and plans on putting. he certainly has not made it public yet. the president of the parents tv council says if agnus t. jones meant what he purportedly said that this is not just a publicity stunt, then his comments are welcome and we urge viewers to heed his call to not watch it. by the way, the creators and cbs have not commented yet. nothing from charlie sheen, and he loves to comment. megyn: there is no such thing as indentured servitude in this country. he can always quit. there is nothing that says that she probably can't go and work for another show, but he can always quit. reporter: he hasn't made any public mention of quitting as of yet. megyn: coming up, new signs of economic progress and what better thing about personal income growth nationwide. why some states are leading the
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